Tuesday, September 6, 2011

Comic 947: Randy's School of Investment

investing

[Comic title: Investing; alt text: But Einstein said it was the most powerful force in the universe, and I take all my investment advice from flippant remarks by theoretical physicists making small talk at parties.]

Before we go into this comic, I'd like to point out that this is not the original comic that Randall posted. The number in the original comic was $1279, a number which is apparently in error (I obviously am far too lazy to check this sort of shit). I guess $1219 is the correct number, though. Good thing Randy takes the time to proofread and then inform everyone of his mysterious edits!

Now, the comic itself. It looks like Randy's really upping the sneering disdain for concepts he doesn't understand lately--this is two of the past three comics where he sets up a smugness strawman! This time it's investing. "Investing is dumb," he says. "If instead of investing $1000 you got a job writing a shitty stick figure comic thrice-weekly, you'd have way more money in ten years. I mean, I get a thousand dollars every time I sneeze, and I don't even have to try!"

Those of you who aren't some form of shelf fungus might have noticed that this is a false dichotomy. In Randy Land you can either invest, or you can try to make more money. It's impossible to do both! And since the return on a relatively tiny amount of money over time is also pretty tiny, it's better to just make more money, instead of relying on that whole investing stuff.

I'm not here to advise you on your investing future, of course, but the premise here (investment is dumb) seems rather flawed. Indeed, there is an entire segment of the population which makes its living entirely on investment. It's kind of a thing. Now, far be it from me to question the financial wisdom of Randall Munroe, who was totally a NASA PHYSICIST before he was a t-shirt salesmen, but I think it is worth observing that the ultra-rich, who are ultra-rich and have lots of money, invest.

This comic has, predictably, started plenty of nerd arguments about economics and maths, but none of it is interesting, except for the nerds who seem to think that you can get a guaranteed eight percent return on investments somewhere, which, where do I sign?

121 comments:

  1. UndercoverCuddlefishSeptember 7, 2011 at 12:53 AM

    randalls problem is that he has never handled a sum of money greater than his rent check i mean have you seen how much t shirts sell for the man is obviously still living like a broke ass college kid

    making enough money to live off of by pushing out three mediocre stick figure drawings every week is already enough of a miracle lets not pretend that randy is some sort of billionaire with no grasp of how much money his billions can bring in for him

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  2. It's true. You must immediately stop investing, and start making crappy webcomics and selling teeshirts of them.

    Else you will never be rich and happy (well, except about your ex that you mention every other comic) like Randy.

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  3. Compound interest, of course, can't be calculated unless you know the compounding rate. If you compound yearly you'll end up with less than if you compounded monthly, etc.

    Thankfully, we know the maximum amount you can get assuming an infinite compounding rate- and it's how the number 'e' was developed.

    Given $1000 at 2% interest over 10 years, you can expect a return of 1000 * (e^(0.02 * 10)) = $1221.40. That's the maximum you could possibly get from compound interest which itself proves the original figure wrong.

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  4. "except for the nerds who seem to think that you can get a guaranteed eight percent return on investments somewhere, which, where do I sign?"

    Depends on where you live I guess. In Australia it's easy to find 6% term deposits, and interest rates are pretty much as low as they've ever been.

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  5. I can get a term deposit at 7% in about two minutes.

    Downsides:
    1) Compounded annually
    2) Money locked away for 5 years(!)

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  6. Big Fat Robby, you're being dishonnest. The comic is not about investment versus work, it is about the fact that compounding or not compounding interest rates does not make much of a difference for the everyday man. 2% of 1000 is 20 dollars. If you get 20 dollars a year for 10 years you get 200 dollars, instead of the 219 dollars figure of Munroe.

    SO BASICALLY THIS IS THE SAME, plus or minus a Gap T shirt.

    I think it's the joke. The joke is about compounding. it's about maths, not about money. Munroe never talks money. Only maths.

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  7. It's still not a very good joke. Okay, so 2% doesn't make much. Take 7% though:

    simple interest over 10 years: $1700.00
    compound interest over 10 years: $2013.75

    Now, that's 1.44x what you would have made otherwise ($1013 instead of $700). If it's only compounded each year, like 2:36's example, it's a little more subdued: $1967.15. But that's still 1.38x. Sure, the extra three hundred dollars or so isn't that much in absolute terms, but you only started out with a thousand dollars and this is free money that you won't lose just because the market took a tumble thanks to federal insurance.

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  8. Oh man, someone joined the forums to complain about the new Burning Man comic:

    "@jpk ofc I'm taking this personally. One of the most respected webcomics around just bashed an entire cultural movement. Based on what? His own crappy experience or meetup with a few burners? Or is this just satire and all in jest? Either way, it is one of the best things going on in the current state of the world where it isn't all fluff. Unless you have some solid facts and not theories and what you think, don't even bother to defend the comic."

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  9. Burning man: apparently _not_ just a meetup for hipsters and faggots, but a "cultural movement"

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  10. When I think of Burning Man, I think of grandmaster-level chess.

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  11. Leonard: Yes, I was also wondering what on earth this has to do with chess. But, then again, this the first time I've heard of burning man. The wikipedia article doesn't do it any favors in my mind.

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  12. man, Burning Man just hasn't been the same since they stopped putting an actual person inside

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  13. A video/photo/meme/internet thing goes around, and everybody enjoys it and laughs.

    Trust Randall to come in and say "well, actually, X isn't that good because blah blah blah"

    At least he's current this time.

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  14. remember your audience randy. many of them also can't hold a conversation for 5 minutes

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  15. also what do you know about normal conversations

    do me without a condom

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  16. Re: "Burning Man", I think Randall was just reaching to find some nerd subculture he could insult that didn't make up a significant portion of his fanbase.

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  17. please for the love of god do me without a condom

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  18. Everyone who is speaking about interest rates... Don't you have inflation in your country? I think that inflation is about 3.5% a year where I live (european country without a credit crisis) so compound or not, any interest below 3.5% is just losing money.

    If I managed to find a fund with guaranteed 7+% yearly compound interest, I would be interested... But it seems that they're all "lock your money up for five years and invest at least 5 grand at a time" which itself wouldn't be a problem but they all also have some gotcha, like "We only pay in full if we aren't in recession then. If we are, we'll only pay 2% compound interest"

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  19. why won't anyone listen to me

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  20. I listened to you, R. Well, technically I stole your quote and used it in my XKCD SUCKS review without crediting you, but it's pretty much the same thing.

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  21. you really are a neckbeard

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  22. What SilverSurfer? Burning Man hasn't been culturally relevant for a decade, at least, which is only one reason why this comic sucks so much. I know about because I read shit on the internet all day, but I doubt most people do. And of course chess makes no sense whatsoever and it's a stupid joke anyway.

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  23. 12:02 - I meant the two cleverbots chatting.

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  24. I remember when Blub Cheese did a comic about Burning Man... a year ago! It had a nerdier reference, too.

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  25. Only pedophiles promote their own sites in blog comments. True fact.

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  26. Thank God Burning Man isn't culturally relevant anymore. The last thing it needs is hipsters who base their choice of recreational activities on perceived cultural relevance. However, Anon@12:02, this years Burning Man just ended two days ago, so the xkcd is pretty timely.

    Chess? WTF? There's been chess with human pieces, camps with go, and camps with German-style board games, but chess isn't particularly, um, culturally relevant to Burning Man.

    I had to bite my tongue last week when my camp-mates were raving about xkcd. Randall was described as a genius. The conversation DID last less than 5 minutes though, and I've got hopes that Randall's clueless regurgitation of the media's image of Burning Man as a haven for shower averse hippies* will convert some of my friends to the anti-xkcd side.

    *(yeah, there are a handful of dirty hippy types at Burning Man, but not many. Showers are hard to come by in the desert, but are pretty much priority #1 once we get out; the average hygiene level of Randall's fanbase is probably lower than that of burners on the first day of the event although that does change by the end of the week)

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  27. Someone is doppelganging R. And this time it's not me.

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  28. http://i.imgur.com/I4cWm.png

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  29. Just curious... you state on your sidebar that "xkcd is no longer a great webcomic (though it once was)"

    When was it a great webcomic, in your opinion? Which particular strips, or "age" of xkcd come to your mind as an example of a "great" webcomic?

    Thanks.

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  30. the ones which were mostly about my cock

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  31. At one point did Rob stop using capitalization and punctuation in his comments? Fellow suckers, I fear a troll impostor might be trolling us.

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  32. rob never used capitalization

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  33. that's not entirely true, i just usually don't

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  34. investments made to fulfill dreams see
    all of them crash now
    ...
    the US made millions
    they can't even find a quarter now
    the whole thing stop ya know
    millionaires turned paupers now
    ...
    it's like people no care about your thought or your art now
    it's all what you got now
    ...
    something's got to give

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  35. Spoiler alert: The player character in Knights of the Old Republic is really Darth Revan.

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  36. did you read the study about how people actually enjoy stories more if they know how they end?

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  37. man rob i'm halfway through that study thanks for ruining the ending

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  38. Oh, in that case: Snape kills Trinity with Rosebud!

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  39. I was actually going to finish Knights of the Old Republic as soon as it stopped being boring ass newshit.

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  40. Thanks a lot for ruining my eighth playthrough, fucker.

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  41. SGirl is ALTF's progeny, right? Within a year it'll've evolved into the awful troll ALTF was.

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  42. @SGirl: The side bar comments are Carl "The Absent Sloth" Wheeler's opinions, so no one living can really speak for them. The appropriate answer though, IMO, is "When we were in high school". Your mileage may vary.

    If you want a less subjective point of view, I'd say that it was back when he still understood what a pregnant pause was. I think the transition was somewhere back around 300-400, because rereading the 50->100 range, I still find most of these pretty entertaining.

    Captcha: Consluse. I want this to be a word more than anything =[

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  43. IIRC the first post on this blog was for somewhere around 400. I know when Rob first showed up he was an XKCD fanboy, so for him it started at least a little while after that.

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  44. @Rob: I agree about the story ending bit if only from my own experiences. I find that I can concentrate more on the characters, subtle hints and nuances in the narrative if I know whats going to happen than if I'm just trying to figure out wtf is going on.

    Also: Cloud was never in SOLDIER.

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  45. 948: hahahahah computers hahahaha people that go to burning man smell bad.

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  46. September 5, 2011 3:42September 8, 2011 at 11:28 AM

    All the newest comment is missing is the last panel where Cue ball slaps her and says "i'm tired of you demeaning my religion."

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  47. @SGirl

    You've raised a valid point. Ask any hater when xkcd was at its best (and it's no secret that we all used to be fans) and the honest answer will always be 'before I started reading'. TVTropes refers to this phenomenon as the Nostalgia Filter.

    Randall's early work was not much better or worse than today's. This comic is considered by many to be 'classic xkcd' - it's even on T-shirts. But if it was published today, it would certainly not get the same fanfare.

    Some other ones - just imagine what xkcdsucks would say if they were published today (though I'm deliberately picking examples that prove my point).

    Our expectations have risen, and xkcd has not improved enough. Are we at fault here? No - most people would expect a webcomic to improve over time, especially if it gains as much success as xkcd has.

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  48. @ Rob
    Of course I read that study. It's why I brought up that key plot point- to maximize the enjoyment of those who might play KOTOR in the future.

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  49. I'm just here to say that I really like that "can't find my shoes" one.

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  50. By the way, bingo is up.

    Captcha: dingisit. Ding... or is it?

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  51. Can I have sex with any of you guys please?

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  52. You can have sex with me.

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  53. What kind of things would you do to provide me with a good sexual experience?

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  54. you could do me without a condom.

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  55. Okay, honey. I'll be down in a minute.

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  56. R.@2:29 what does your hair smell like, please?

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  57. @Anons 2:24-2:31

    Wouldn't that be considered masturbation, given that you are all the same person?

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  58. I only posted once. The samefags around me made me feel unclean, so I left.

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  59. Actually, I wrote all of those posts myself. Mwahaha, including the Jon Levi one.

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  60. my hair smells like used condoms

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  61. 949: oh cool a drawn out tweet.

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  62. except petrol costs money Randall.

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  63. And the bingo covers all bases pretty much. Nobody can make a comment without ticking one off.

    (Not defending xkcd)

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  64. Don't get the new comic... Is he saying that we can't send a big file easily via the internet? Because i was screaming DROPBOX in my head, and then he mentions it...

    And what the fuck is an early adopter? A person who adopted internet in the pioneer's era? A person who adopted internet just right now and cannot figure out how to use it yet?

    And who's the guy talking on the phone? He is not a friend, not a tech guy... The whole setup is awfully awkward.

    And what's the joke? What's the witty remark here? That file sharing is boresome? I don't find it particularly boresome. I find it incredibly fast and easy. Most files are shared by mail, and for the rest, dropbox works well. Having a website and uploading files on it is not something particularly hard to do.

    ESPECIALLY FOR A GEEK.

    Anyhoo, what a piece of shite of a comic.

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  65. What's the big deal with emailing a 25MB file? Frigging Hotmail can handle that.

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  66. Except for the part where Frigging Hotmail won't let you.

    But yeah, dropbox is about as fast and un-frustrating as it could be. Is he saying we should have some kind of "send to paul" button built in to windows that will know who paul is and how to send it?

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  67. kind of a luddite perspective from our friend Randy

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  68. @ 1:43

    Yes, Hotmail can. 25MB their absolute maximum, and it won't be quick, but they can do it.

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  69. I give it even odds that, after his cuddlefishy minions complain that 25 MB is totally sendable via email, the number mysteriously changes

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  70. I _think_ Randy's idea here is that we should all have IPv6 so all our computers could be routed instead of NATed, and then we could use ftp/scp/cifs/etc. to send files from computer A to computer B.

    No clue why supposedly tech-savvy Randy's self-insertion character, his "early-adopter" friend, and his friend's cousin don't have a single vps or dropbox account amongst them -- or why "flaky and full of delays and porn popups" is not both an acceptable hurdle and a well-deserved penalty for their cluelessness... megaupload would be exactly what I'd advise in this circumstance.

    (Except I might give the fool a guest login on my vps to upload this file, since I have one of those -- apparently unlike Randy.)

    Also, Tim Berners-Lee invented the web, not the internet. Why would he care about people's use or non-use of random methods of file transfer? WTF does that have to do with hypertext? Randy, have you been smoking crack again?

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  71. @2:33 If ever you've been wondering why NASA is such a fuck-up these days, just consider that they thought Randy able to do some work for them.

    captcha: hanslos. Heute gehts mir so hanslos!

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  72. Never
    Actually
    Succeeds.
    At all.

    They were made for each other.

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  73. September 5, 2011 3:42September 9, 2011 at 4:24 AM

    MSN messenger.

    Click and drag files into your text box.

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  74. Alt alt text: But Randall Munroe said compound interest isn't some magical force, and I take all my investment advice from web comics drawn by man children.

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  75. Or if its a really crazy file I'll just remote desktop in and copy/paste

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  76. Hey fuck you. I'd like to see you get to the moon.

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  77. I think you mean "I'd like to see you fake a moon landing in a sound stage".

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  78. Scott, all the evidence suggests that people who think the moon landing was a hoax are more likely to meet with an accident. Capiche?

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  79. Regarding the newest comic, I'm just left wondering: with such a massive load of dialogue (well, at least one side of it), why does Randall STILL need a caption to explain the joke (if there is any)?

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  80. new comic is awful
    cuddlefish are stupid
    grass is green

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  81. i want to be done without a condom

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  82. So I was going to make a witty ('witty') rejoinder suggesting that the person who posted Abstruse Goose Watch was actually the author of Abstruse Goose, possibly by saying "stop pimping your webcomic <author of Abstruse Goose>". But then I realised I don't know what his name is, and the only way he says it is in Japanese. It was while I was attempting to look up the pronunciation of the first kanji in an online Japanese dictionary that I had an epiphany: I didn't actually give a fuck.

    So.

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  83. ann you are such a baka gaijin

    suu~

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  84. The author only gives a Japanese version of his name? What a twat.

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  85. "I have seen some webcomics that have truly
    stretched the limits of what a comic can become. In that regard, I think that Randall
    Munroe, creator of the insanely popular xkcd comic, deserves a mention. He may not have
    been the first person to start a webcomic, but he certainly stretched the limits of the format and helped to define what we have come to think of as webcomics today"
    -- Abstruse Goose

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  86. @Ann Apolis

    全玄鴻

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  87. Randall can't seem to get 3 panels of normal conversation down either.

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  88. "The All Mysterious David"? So his name is David, but he thought it was too lame so he decided to jazz it up? [/hypocrisy]

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  89. Rob (September 7, 2011 6:19 PM):

    Please grow up. And if you don't feel like answering a question, don't pretend you do. Or at least, pretend better.

    Anonymous (September 8, 2011 5:08 AM):

    Why and how was my question "trolling"? There seems to be a huge misunderstanding of that word in this blog. Please pick a name if you answer, otherwise it gets confusing.

    Ravenzomg (September 8, 2011 6:24 AM):

    Thanks for explaining the sidebar comments. I do find some of the strips weak or even bad esometimes, but since I read that "xkcd is no longer a great webcomic (though it once was)" I was curious about that "once". However, looking at the sidebar, there doesn't seem to be an "age" of xkcd favored, maybe the "once" referred to one particular strip.

    Also, I might point out that I still don't understand the need of personal attacks against the guy who draws the webcomic.

    Jon Levi (September 8, 2011 11:29 AM):

    I had no idea any of the people who wrote here used to be a fan of xkcd. I wonder what happened. I agree that xkcd has not improved or decayed greatly since when it started, but I was curious to hear other opinions. Sadly, all I got was a penis joke... coming from someone who criticizes humor, no less.

    I am going to repeat that I don't like every single xckd strip, but the constant and harsh personal attacks puzzle me.

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  90. @Sgirl: about 98% of the people here used to be XKCD fans. Most of us came here to disrupt the site or tell Carl [and later Rob] how he could take his subjective critiques and fuck himself. I used to be that awful teenager who'd print off XKCD comics and leave them around the school for people to find and [how could they not, I asked myself] enjoy thoroughly.

    And then one day I found myself here spamming the place with discussion about Twilight, and then I started to realize that I had misplaced my antagonism. I was standing up for something that was mediocre at the best of times and deeply unsettling at the worst.

    Randall Munroe has stated many a time that he never visits this site and had no intention to ever do so. He'd find it "awkward" or something to that effect, since he's particularly self-conscious with his work. So attacks against him here will never reach his eyes, so it's simply a bizarre and ugly form of catharsis that evolved out of reasonable conclusions such as "he seems to have a weird fascination with lactation" or "Why did he keep bringing up Megan" or "This comic is kinda creepy, but he hasn't given us any pattern that would indicate that as intentional".

    More than anything, he represents the kind of geek he's fostering, which, if you go to the forums, you'll see plenty of.

    In short, the personal attacks are a cathartic release of frustration at the behaviour of our peers, directed at one of many accidental preserving agents of these "traits" and "quirks" that they refuse to acknowledge as the "liabilities" and "weaknesses" that they prove to be in the Real World™.

    Also Rob "World Devourer" Mason is not here to be mature, he's here to cultivate hate and frustration like a travelling peddler of wares and wonders might cultivate misplaced trust and unjustified curiosity. Just FYI.

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  91. TL;DR
    So many people wrongly think that xkcd is good that we feel a compulsion to show why they're wrong.

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  92. This site (or its community) occasionally offers criticism of nerd culture in general, something that can be hard to come by in a nerd-dominated internet. Occasionally we are pathetic hypocrites when it comes to that, but I find it refreshing when somebody does it well.

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  93. haha, what? 98% of you twerps were disrupting this site because you wanted to defend XKCD? You are impure. The true artiste disrupts for the sake of disruption.

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  94. SGirl, I know you've not allowed yourself to use it for another 6 months or so, but your ALTF persona was more creative. Perhaps you finally took note of the criticism that you were trying way too hard with it.

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  95. "I am actually anexceptional artist but I simply choose to hide my world-class talent out of some misguidedsense of modesty."
    ~ Abstruse Goose

    This is almost too easy to mock.

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  96. uh
    he's already mocking himself. is that not clear

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  97. stop feeding the boring trolls, guys

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  98. Rob, you fed ALTF like you were going on a diet.

    Which makes it doubly weird, you fat fuck.

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  99. Notice that the two people in this strip who are struggling with math are girls. Maybe that was Randy's real point: Girls are bad at math.

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  100. Andrew is on to something.

    For Randy to draw girls, he has to expend extra effort. An XKCD girl is basically an XKCD guy with long hair (Are there XKCD hippies?). Artists don't draw something extra without an idea behind it.

    I doubt the strip is actually about mocking girls, but it's some deeply ingrained sexism in his mind. But it wouldn't be the first time, either.

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  101. All trolls are boring. They're like knock knock jokes thrown about to pass the time.

    Well, I suppose the ones who think themselves sophisticated are boring in a different way. Like highly contrived puns or something.

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  102. I just want to say fuck you to the banks for pressuring NS&I to cap their index-linked savings certs. Make a comic about that instead of HURR THIS IS HOW INTEREST IS CALCULATED Randall you stupid fuck.

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  103. i think he should make a comic about how your a fag lol

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  104. Randall doesn't acknowledge the existence of homosexuals. Or blacks. Or women who can speak for themselves.

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  105. If only the real world was like that, AMIRITE

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  106. amirite bitches you cunt ass cocksucking mother fuckings bitches sticking your dicks into shit and pretending it was pussy

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  107. 7:24 = fagfag

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  108. GUYS, STOP BICKERING, IT'S 9/11. HAVE SOME RESPECT.

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  109. ROB YOU BLOATED WHALE WRITE ANOTHER POST

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  110. HAPPY 9/11 EVERYONE, CELEBRATE BY MISSING THE MESSAGE COMPLETELY LIKE ALWAYS!

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  111. When 9/11 was happening at first I was happy because the US needs taking down a peg. But then I was sad because I knew that the US government would use it not as a reminder to protect freedom but as an excuse to make things even worse for its own people and its allies.

    A decade later, it turns out that I was entirely justified to feel this way.

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  112. We can at least agree that by turning it to their advantage so incredibly well, they staved off any more attacks in the future.

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  113. I was once attacked by a dog. Since then I have carried around a solid gold tiger. It has made me the object of ridicule, my limbs are aching and I can barely afford to eat. But at least I haven't been attacked by any more dogs.

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  114. Anonymous (September 10, 2011 12:59 AM):

    "SGirl, I know you've not allowed yourself to use it for another 6 months or so, but your ALTF persona was more creative. "

    I haven't used that nick, you're mistaken.



    Anonymous (September 10, 2011 2:19 PM):

    "Randall doesn't acknowledge the existence of homosexuals. Or blacks. Or women who can speak for themselves."

    Seriously, people... what is YOUR problem???

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