Hello fellow critics/hecklers/horse-beaters, I'm thomas (lowercase in blogger!) and I'll be bashing xkcd for your entertainment this week, starting with this flow chart.
Lord knows Randall loves his flowcharts, but this reminds me of his Mario Kart pie more than anything, in that it's largely true, in this case among "computer experts" of the house or workplace. Once a computers amateur gets over the fear of misclicking and deleting everything, simple logic and a touch of intuition can solve most problems. I have slotted neatly into a niche, Randall -- well done.
However, as applicable as I find this chart, I have two issues with it. First, it advocates taping an xkcd comic near a computer area, spreading the horrible trend of printed xkcd's to the relatives of its intended audience. Nonsensical ties and science lab fanboys were bad enough; now people who don't even know what xkcd is will associate it with some fictional "in crowd" of tech geniuses.
Second, despite humility of the narration, this chart only strengthens the superiority complex xkcd's fans will have. Not only would linking this to your grandmother say, "I'm done helping you anymore, now go away," it doesn't suggest anything people wouldn't think to do now. Look for a button related to your problem? Google? The chart includes an "ask for help" option -- what do you think the xkcd reader on the answering end is going to do? Link you to the damn chart! As a member of the Half-Assed Tech Support Squad, I sincerely hope that this image doesn't clog help forums everywhere.
Lastly, there's the mention of Megan getting prompted for printer help from her dad. I smell a snarky in-joke towards the real-life Megan who is dating a man old enough to be her father, but I'm terrible with Megan humor, so why don't you tell me what's cooking?
The chart includes an "ask for help" option -- what do you think the xkcd reader on the answering end is going to do? Link you to the damn chart!
ReplyDeleteThis is probably true, and while your criticism is accurate, it still got a smile out of me. I don't have any relatives who are tech-inept enough to need this, which is probably fortunate for both me and them.
I think my main problem with the comic is that the advice is so general and so unhelpful that anyone tech-un-savvy to need this sort of advice is probably too tech-un-savvy to actually derive any sort of benefit from the flowchart (even if they DID manage to get a copy printed).
ReplyDeleteYeah, the Megan thing, anyone else think Randall is fucking with us?
ReplyDeleteThe advice isn't supposed to be tech-savvy. The whole joke is that we don't actually know what the hell we're doing; we just hit random buttons and hope for the best. Or at least I do.
ReplyDeleteThat's kind of inconsistent with his recommendation to distribute this comic to everyone who needs tech help, because it's how people actually troubleshoot.
ReplyDeleteBesides, I'm not sure I agree that you don't know what the hell you're doing. Just because you haven't memorized the feature list of every program someone might be using doesn't mean your tech support is random guessing. Even just going by the flowchart, it's not random guessing.
I'm also not sure what you mean by "The advice isn't supposed to be tech-savvy."
Urgh, so much text outside the damn flowchart? Also, while it seems he tries to actually make a useful flowchart, rather than one that is truely funny, this one would never work as it is way too general. Most of the people I know that can't work computers well do this exactly, and it ends up with them inside strange menus or features that they fiddle with in order to fix/do a certain thing, and they always end up having messed up whatever they are working with rather badly. Yet, all the forumites are swooning.
ReplyDeleteThe alt text is Randy, calling Megan up and pretending to be her dad. And he secretly dreams of them having a relationship where he says stuff like "Who's your daddy?"
ReplyDeleteThis comic reads like a pale shadow of the old XKCD comics where Randall actually came up with some pretty funny self-reflective insights on computing. This seems like a kind of weak throwback, though... maybe it's just that it's tainted by how crap XKCD has become? Maybe I would've laughed if it was still in the 200's or something.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what I totally hate about it is that it basically just tells people to print it out and hang it up in the office or next to their family's screens and such. That trend was annoying enough when readers kept doing it endlessly on their own, but just flat out telling them to do it? Christ.
Finally, I agree with Jay. Everytime Megan shows up nowadays I just read it as Randall fucking with our minds. (GOOMH!) If that's true, I actually think that's a pretty funny thing of him to do.
Y'know what?
ReplyDeleteThis comic was not so bad. I can relate.
And I also wouldn't have minded the alt-text if xkcdsucks hadn't conditioned me to scoff at every mention of the name "Megan".
Thank god I don't consider myself a "computer person." I can manage just fine without any help whatsoever, but I'd rather be a rube than in the same company as Randall. When will nerds learn that nerd hierarchy is lame even at the top?
ReplyDeleteI think it's helpful to assume the whole concept of this strip is purely facetious, but then, that might as well be just wishful thinking: most of the "hardcore" fanboys will be taking this very, very serious. Of course, the "tech experts" the comic refers to will relate to the flowchart, but not the un-tech-savvy users! They'll look at it and still not have a clue: it's HEARING the advice that makes the difference. So, yeah, I think it's facetious. It's sort of funny, I guess, but basically a weak throwback to the previous, funnier tech related comics.
ReplyDeleteAlso sorry for being an asshole yesterday. I don't know what was wrong with me. I guess I just needed some sort of release; stuff you don't need to know about, but that still doesn't justify it. I'm sorry.
Tech Support Cheat currently 9th on trending topic list and either rising or falling or staying where it is.
ReplyDeleteThis comic sucked. Not funny, not insightful, and no art. The whole flowchart thing is a beaten horse already. Didn't he once made a comic that made a fun of flowcharts (something like "How to read flowcharts (in the form of flowchart)"? Fuck flowcharts.
ReplyDeleteIt's the first one I've been able to even vaguely relate to for a long while, so... at least I smiled.
ReplyDeleteNot thinking, Jay. Hoping.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the premise, by the way. Just the other day my printer wouldn't print, and my mother asked for help. Turns out the USB cable had gotten unplugged- no amount of random button clicking would have solved it. Two weeks before that my HDD got a bad sector in some critical place so the computer would freeze when booting. This chart doesn't cover getting a Ubuntu LiveCD which you happened to have close by, booting from that, getting the ethernet link and modem to work with Linux, getting on #windows and asking for help (which involves describing the problem -possible/likely hardware failure, which is not an obvious possibility unless you know what hardware failure looks like- and the UBCD), and then being able to follow the instructions.
Hell, the way my scanner works, it's very doubtful you'd figure out how to use it unless you know what you're looking for.
I guess the problem is "button that looks like its relevant". Experience makes an enormous difference in knowing what is relevant, what isn't, what will (reversibly or no) screw up your computer, and what should not screw it up but might anyway due to possible far reaching consequences of your problem, bugs in software, undocumented limitations and such.
And all that aside, your friend/neighbor/relative/loved one has been at this for a while, is frustrated, and really needs to do something much more important than playing with the menu items. Even if it is more efficient in the end, shoving this chart in their face is just mean. It'll probably either take you a minute to fix, or is too difficult for them to figure out on their own anyway.
Lastly, this was the case back in the Win 98 days. Nowadays mainstream software is very user friendly and most people are fairly computer literate, or at least not nearly as liable to panic. Anyone who is confused is probably doing some complicated stuff (IP forwarding, dual boot, FTP upload, monitored network internet access) and should know what they're doing.
When was the last time you ever heard any man address himself as "your father" to his own daughter? Nobody would ever do that.
ReplyDeleteMy father does, sometimes. But not in English. And I'm not his daughter, for that matter.
ReplyDeleteThe forum thread for that comic. It's depressing. Urgh, goodness, that place is making me ill.
ReplyDeleteI thought flow charts were great when they were overly complicated and full of throw away jokes. Like Stephen Colbert's 'Are you gay?' flow chart in I am America (And so can you!)or some of the flow charts on Yahtzee's website. But both of the xkcd flow charts have been short and unfunny.
ReplyDeleteThe again, I thought xkcd was a humor comic, so I guess I'm 0/2 today.
I think we all want Randall to tell us one thing: WHO THE HELL IS MEGAN?
ReplyDeleteHonestly, it's getting to be the creepiest running gag in mainstream webcomics.
This comic sucked. Not funny, not insightful, and no art. The whole flowchart thing is a beaten horse already. Didn't he once made a comic that made a fun of flowcharts (something like "How to read flowcharts (in the form of flowchart)"? Fuck flowcharts.
ReplyDeleteHe made a flowchart titled "How to Make Flowcharts" I think, but I don't think it made fun of flowcharts.
Also, I really don't think Randall believes that this is facetious or ironic. I think he just thinks that this is good advice, as evidenced by the utter sincerity exhibited by him and every forumite.
I feel like most of the criticism leveled at this strip is actually directed at the fans.
ReplyDeleteI'll be the first to admit that xkcd used to be a thick vein of comedy and insight, while lately finding the precious ore requires a lot of sifting. But this is a little bit of what I've been sifting for over the past month or so.
Megan-ing aside, there was a solid punchline in the title text; don't be a curmudgeon for the sake of it. Instead, save your hate for a strip that deserves it: maybe Wednesday's?
That said, if you're unhappy about the size or nature of the comic's fanbase, well, that's a different, larger issue.
I think randy might actually be giving US fanservice here
ReplyDeleteWhat the fuck, Tim? People do that kind of thing all the time, especially on the phone when they need to identify themselves to the person they're calling.
ReplyDelete"Also, I really don't think Randall believes that this is facetious or ironic. I think he just thinks that this is good advice, as evidenced by the utter sincerity exhibited by him and every forumite."
ReplyDeleteYep, I'm starting to believe that. But I swear, if I saw a similar joke in ANY other webcomic, I'd be 100% sure it was irony.
Megan-ing aside, there was a solid punchline in the title text; don't be a curmudgeon for the sake of it. Instead, save your hate for a strip that deserves it: maybe Wednesday's?
ReplyDeleteThat punchline was only "solid" because it's so ancient and well-trod that it's been compressed into a thin, sturdy disc. It also feels more like Randall's cringing, self-abnegating after-the-punchline pun-acknowledgments, where he goes "Yeah, guys, I know it sucks dehh hur hur," than a joke.
I kind of found this a bit condescending and over-simplifying the issue. I mean, most people I know who ask me for computer help know that I just poke around the program, but they're usually terrified of breaking something or trying the wrong thing and not being able to back out of it.
ReplyDeleteWord is a great example of where just trying random things can monumentally fuck up your document. Oh shit, what is this table doing here? Oh, I'll just hit delete. WTF, why is it not deleting the table but ALL OF MY TEXT? UHH, ctrl+z. WHY THE FUCK DO I HAVE TWO TABLES NOW?
CHRIST.
ReplyDelete"I printed out this comic and hung it next to my mom's computer. "
I didn't hate today's comic. I thought it was sort of applicable, and if not interesting, at least it sort of made me think "Hah, always happens to me."
ReplyDeleteHowever, I hated the alt text.
Really, Randall? LET MEGAN GO.
My dream is that eventually Megan will be recognized as Randall's style just as much as his shitty art is. "Dude, stop making Megan jokes. She's just part of the comic, like the art or the intelligence."
ReplyDelete"art"? "intelligence"? "comic"?
ReplyDeleteIf you are referring to xkcd, you have defined your terms very loosely.
I think that might have been the joke. Especially since he called the art shitty like a sentence before.
ReplyDeleteNonetheless.
I'm almost as ironic as Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't funny and it was a pain in the ass to figure out. The main problem is that he shows the main problem to be "find a menu item or button". Usually that's not what the problem is. The problem is that something's not working right. Maybe I'm just not getting it.
ReplyDeleteI've fixed plenty of computers in my lifetime so far, and the googling was never related to a "button". Not only is this unfunny, I think it's stupid.
I'd comment more on the comic, but it's all been said already. While the comic is somewhat true, there is a degree of computer literacy needed before you are capable of making effective educated guesses and taking the right measures to make sure you don't destroy your work in the process of looking for the fix you need.
ReplyDeleteCan we get the alt-texts posted on this blog? I don't want to have to go to that website and give Randall a hit that he doesn't deserve.
ReplyDeleteUh, he gets like a billion hits a day. I don't think he'd notice/care.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Alexa, xkcd gets much more hits than Penny Arcade or Cyanide and Happiness (which are almost tied).
ReplyDeleteHuh.
I'm not sure how accurate alexa is, but does this mean that xkcd is currently the most popular webcomic of all time?
SHIT.
No, PA still gets more.
ReplyDeleteFor now.
I'm dying of second hand embarrassment for Megan right now.
ReplyDeleteThe third panel of today's Dinosaur Comic made me think of the drama in yesterday's comic thread.
ReplyDeleteRyan North, are you reading this?
Yes.
ReplyDeletei <3 u ryan
ReplyDeletehave my BBs
Correction: No
ReplyDeleteI will actually offer Randall some credit if that alt text is intentionally messing with us.
ReplyDeleteLooks like those ties weren't selling well so Randall's gonna encourage people to ask for this comic in poster form.
ReplyDeletehttp://lifehacker.com/5344702/tech-support-cheat-sheet-reveals-the-secrets-of-troubleshooting
ReplyDeleteARGH! That's disgusting.
That Lifehacker place has an article on Let Me Google That For you and they're basically like "While somebody watches the LMGTFY animation, maybe they will learn HOW to Google things properly, like, crap about search strings and keywords. Mumble mumble teach a man to fish, we're assholes."
ReplyDeletegod damn it, Lifehacker.
ReplyDeleteNever heard about that Lifehacker. Thanks for your introduction, I have a new entry on my list of Websites I WON'T Check Out Further.
ReplyDeleteI hate that snob attitude from the "tech-savvy". Hate it, hate it, hate it. Mostly because I am fairly "tech-savvy" and I've been asked for help by relatives, relatives of relatives and relatives of relatives of relatives; and even when I don't feel like doing it, at least I *understand* their problems. Meanwhile, those "passive-aggressive" "help" sites often don't cover up the cases when, for example, I'm having some problem with Linux, I go on Google to search for an answer, and get pages and pages of other problems that are only MARGINALLY related to mine. No matter how I try, I can never be specific enough. How's THAT for the magic of Google, huh? Gonna make me a snarky website about that?
Also, not that I want to go on linguistic picking again, but is anyone else bothered about the use of "Google" as a verb?
No.
ReplyDelete"Google" as a verb doesn't bother me at all. The word itself was created as a brand name; why should we get all crotchety about a word that only even came into existence a few years ago?
ReplyDeleteWould have been much better without the creepy reference to "Megan" in the alt-text. I sometimes feel like I'm reading what will one day become evidence as a stalker's papertrail when I'm reading XKCD.
ReplyDeleteI have it on good authority* that Google are a tad narked about it.
ReplyDelete*half-remember
Eh, this is basically exactly my experience being the 'computer person' at home, except the 'problem' is usually so basic I don't even get to the Google step. There really are plenty of people who don't think to poke around in the menu options for some reason, or are too scared to or something. Past problems have included:
ReplyDeleteHow to get the text of a Word document into an e-mail(Copy/Paste)
"Everything suddenly disappeared when I was typing"(Edit/Undo)
The screensaver came on
That's right, my mother will scream for me to drop what I'm doing and 'fix the computer' before she even does as much problem-solving as moving the mouse.
Anyways, the "poke around" premise is solid, at least in my experience. The execution could've been better, maybe with boxes like "See if everything's plugged in" or "Look in the Recycle Bin"
Maybe there could've been a step like "Isolate the problem by checking the functionality of component parts" or something like that.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9dgwi/tech_support_cheat_sheet
ReplyDeleteFriends, we have a proggit to downvote
TotallyIrrelevantGuy's comment is somehow better than the xkcd comic.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, This is in relation to
ReplyDelete"Knowing how to do everything in every -program-"
So I forgive him for leaving out things like checking plugs.
Mum gives me alot of "omg how do i facebook"... I had never used facebook in my life so this chart would have applied
Captcha: Intdo, sounds like the smart way of executing things from a shell
http://www.holycrapaflowchart.com/
ReplyDeletetoodles
You are Randall. Megan is Randall. What is next?
ReplyDelete@COVIZAPIBETEFOKY:
ReplyDeleteMy thinking was more that nobody would ever say "Hey Megan, it's your father", when they could just say "Hey Megan, it's Dad". Or, more likely, "Hey Megan, it's me".
Chalk "Hey Megan, it's your father" up with "Happy wedding day, sis!!" in terms of bad writing.
You're still wrong, Tim. Just because no one in your life seems to every say that, doesn't mean no one every says that.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that people might say it, it just seems unlikely, in the same way that, although somebody might call his younger cousin "little cuz", he almost certainly wouldn't. He'd call him Leroy, or whatever his name is.
ReplyDeleteIt just seems like quite stilted dialogue, although that seems to be the norm for Randall these days.
omg i just called megan and asked her for tech help.
ReplyDeleteget out of my head, randill
I don't know where you're getting these misconceptions that the entire world is unlikely to speak a certain way, but you're wrong. I've heard both of those things being said in quite average scenarios. I don't get how you come to the conclusion that it's "stilted dialogue"; it's perfectly normal.
ReplyDelete"I don't speak that way, so obviously nobody else does!"
ReplyDeleteI guess I subscribe to the Russell T. Davies viewpoint about writing dialogue (http://www.youtube. com/watch?v=1HWWVzfOvVc , 0:53 onwards).
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean that NOBODY would talk like that, just that it's slightly lazy writing. But hey, maybe I'm just expecting too much from a webcomic.
"But hey, maybe I'm just expecting too much from xkcd."
ReplyDeleteCorrected.
I agree that Randall has had horribly lazily written "stilted" dialogue before ("stupid uterus", etc.). I just don't think this is one of those times. I don't know for sure what it is that makes you feel that the dialogue is stilted in any way, but here are my points:
ReplyDeleteIt's possible this is a difference between the way British people talk and the way American people talk (and I'm not saying I know this for sure), although I would say that in both cultures, people tend to do what Russell describes in that video, ie wait for their turn to talk without really listening to the other person.
Furthermore, as someone with a hearing loss, I find it slightly easier to understand "Hey, it's your father" than to understand "Hey, it's dad". More syllables means you have a better chance of distinguishing the words.
But, of course, who gives a shit that there really are people who speak this way, in supremely normal scenarios, without the flow of the conversation feeling stilted or weird at all? It's always gotta be RANDALL'S BEING A FUCKING LAZY JACKASS, even when he's not.
you guys i totally missed the party, this was a completely shitty week when i was busy being busy
ReplyDeleteTO SUM UP:
I too felt like the Megan bit was a deliberate shoutout to xkcdsucks--don't we all feel so special?
Also this reminds me a lot of a flow chart that already is hanging around many offices... basically it says the same sort of thing but is more general, like "did it work --> no --> kick it --> how about now" etc.
And fernie, it's okay to be an asshole. You seem to forget often that you are on the Internet.